www.zxrworld.co.uk

It's ineresting to hear that those who do get their knee down don't run their tyres to the edge. Neither do I. Although I don't get do the knee down thing I do move around the bike a lot and lean off, so there probably isn't a great disagreement between us. I too agree that leaning off the bike actually results in you keeping a greater safety margin. What I am unsure of is the wisdom of getting your knee on the tarmac on unpredictable public road surfaces.

What I do find surprising when I see other road riders is that so few of them move around on the bike and lean off. 90% or more sit stock still in the middle of the seat and lean the bike well over. I find some of the angles of lean pretty extreme. I sometimes wonder if they think I'm posing around by moving around on the bike but that's not my thing. I just feel very unstable sitting still and leaning the bike well over, not properly in control. My bike seems to handle much better when being ridden 'properly'.

So, whether your knee actually kisses the tarmac or not, moving around on the bike and leaning off it is definitely 'a good thing'

well, next time i meet up with a zxr rider who can knee down when required, i'm gonna let them have a play on my gpz (assuming the bloody engines running that is!), to see how they ride an 80's style bike. bet you 10-1 the usual knee-down rider reverts to bolt upright riding, with more bike lean!

gavinfdavies wrote:well, next time i meet up with a zxr rider who can knee down when required, i'm gonna let them have a play on my gpz (assuming the bloody engines running that is!), to see how they ride an 80's style bike. bet you 10-1 the usual knee-down rider reverts to bolt upright riding, with more bike lean!

I have an NC24... typical 80s honda Pogo-stick forks.. I get what you mean about the suspension probably why I bike lean so much thinking about it.

Anyhow... leaning off the bike lowers the centre of gravity, this keeps the bike more upright.

The benefit of this on a track is that you can go even faster as you have more lean available... maximum lean angle when leaning off the bike is achieved at a faster speed than maximum lean angle when sitting with the bike.

So.. only the bat-toad loco fast road riders who lean off will run their tyres to the edge.. this means there carrying massive corner speeds.

If you want to burn off the chicken strips just find an big island, lap it sittign on the bike at 50-60mph and you wont have any strips left.

the 'knee down position' does seem very un-natural to somebody who doesnt practice it. Body positioning has a lot to do with it, some really good videos on the net on proper body positioning if you want to practice.. these will also help on a race-track

Keeping the bike more-upright during a corner (by leaning off) does give it more tyre / traction and stability so it could be classed as 'safer' but its quite rare that im pushing hard enough for sitting with the bike to be considered unsafe.

Neosophist wrote:

gavinfdavies wrote:well, next time i meet up with a zxr rider who can knee down when required, i'm gonna let them have a play on my gpz (assuming the bloody engines running that is!), to see how they ride an 80's style bike. bet you 10-1 the usual knee-down rider reverts to bolt upright riding, with more bike lean!

I have an NC24... typical 80s honda Pogo-stick forks.. I get what you mean about the suspension probably why I bike lean so much thinking about it.

Anyhow... leaning off the bike lowers the centre of gravity, this keeps the bike more upright.

The benefit of this on a track is that you can go even faster as you have more lean available... maximum lean angle when leaning off the bike is achieved at a faster speed than maximum lean angle when sitting with the bike.

So.. only the bat-toad loco fast road riders who lean off will run their tyres to the edge.. this means there carrying massive corner speeds.

If you want to burn off the chicken strips just find an big island, lap it sittign on the bike at 50-60mph and you wont have any strips left.

the 'knee down position' does seem very un-natural to somebody who doesnt practice it. Body positioning has a lot to do with it, some really good videos on the net on proper body positioning if you want to practice.. these will also help on a race-track

Keeping the bike more-upright during a corner (by leaning off) does give it more tyre / traction and stability so it could be classed as 'safer' but its quite rare that im pushing hard enough for sitting with the bike to be considered unsafe.

I know EXACTLY what you buggers are on about (despite being younger! ), but despite having ridden a ZXR400 for around 6 months, the first bike I actually got my knee down on properly was a 1987 VFR750 FG!

To be perfectly honest, although I think I had the correct body positionioning back then, my problem was that I simply didn't lean the bike over enough. When I got my ZXR400 back on the road a few months later and took it out I was scraping my knee straight away and with ease after doing it on the VFR!

My tip is to live near the Redditch Cloverleaf lol!

you're younger than us old gits?! I'm only 24!


young whipersnapper...

gavinfdavies wrote:well, next time i meet up with a zxr rider who can knee down when required, i'm gonna let them have a play on my gpz (assuming the bloody engines running that is!), to see how they ride an 80's style bike. bet you 10-1 the usual knee-down rider reverts to bolt upright riding, with more bike lean!

I had a GPX250R for about 6 years which has a similar high bars etc riding position to the GPZ series and I used to shift about on that with my cheek off the seat. Admittedly any actual knee contact with tarmac would only have come in the course of a slide down the road But I actually learned to move about a bike on this one and found it was better than bolt upright.

I think you should let your cheek get a bit of air Gavin

Tirpitz wrote:It's ineresting to hear that those who do get their knee down don't run their tyres to the edge. Neither do I. Although I don't get do the knee down thing I do move around the bike a lot and lean off, so there probably isn't a great disagreement between us. I too agree that leaning off the bike actually results in you keeping a greater safety margin. What I am unsure of is the wisdom of getting your knee on the tarmac on unpredictable public road surfaces.

What I do find surprising when I see other road riders is that so few of them move around on the bike and lean off. 90% or more sit stock still in the middle of the seat and lean the bike well over. I find some of the angles of lean pretty extreme. I sometimes wonder if they think I'm posing around by moving around on the bike but that's not my thing. I just feel very unstable sitting still and leaning the bike well over, not properly in control. My bike seems to handle much better when being ridden 'properly'.

So, whether your knee actually kisses the tarmac or not, moving around on the bike and leaning off it is definitely 'a good thing'

I really agree with this. I am very much move around when riding my bike whilst my dad is a sit in the seat type rider. When following him I regularly find myself catching up with him very quickly going around corners as I am able to carry more corner speed with less effort.

And for what it's worth, I GOT MY KNEE DOWN FOR THE FIRST TIME YESTERDAY!! Was over the moon. Took a nice tight left hander and heard the magnificent scrape. Only 2 minutes later I took a sweeping right with equal success. Very satisfying.

mxj560 wrote:And for what it's worth, I GOT MY KNEE DOWN FOR THE FIRST TIME YESTERDAY!! Was over the moon. Took a nice tight left hander and heard the magnificent scrape. Only 2 minutes later I took a sweeping right with equal success. Very satisfying.

Welcome to the club!!!

Yesterday I was scraping my knee at 120mph under full power at Rockingham - that'll be the 'other' type of necessary kneedown, then!

Using my road bike on track I also found out that I'm hanging off the bike a ridiculous amount, when I thought I hang off quite a lot during normal road riding. One more reason why it's a good idea for any sportsbike rider to experience a proper track day to learn techniques that will help with their road riding...