Death of a beautiful 400 :( my story...

[Danman109]

Unlucky - but glad you're ok!

Did you have the camera on the bike??

What I can't work out is how you couldn't avoid the car? Did you target fixate and just try your best to brake to safety? Was there oncoming traffic to stop you going around the car?

Hope you get it all sorted out soon!

Regrettably no i didnt have the camera on the bike at the time as it was a 5min ride into town to pick up some lights for the garage as i had to replace the rocker cover gasket and wanted to continue after dark if necessary.. (anyone need a rocker cover gasket? dependant on if i buy back the remnants ofcourse)

I was following an estate car which blocked my view of the car as i exited the roundabout so i only noticed her at the last minute and i instantly noticed the wheels start rolling, at that point i was maybe 10-15m away.. (the cable tie on the forks shows how hard i braked) but i was also aiming at the closing gap infront of the car in the hope that she might stop (she was still moving when she hit me) so as mentioned above i'd say 85% braking on the front and 10% turning... the nose of her car ended up at the yellow line and i hit infront of the front wheel of her car, in hindsight i may have stopped or somehow avoided her if i had the presence of mind (while judging speeds distances grip and available options) to keep my foot ontop of the rear brake lever, however with that much braking and weight on the front would it have been enough? i suspect i'd still have hit her but i'l never know..

yes there was oncoming traffic and in these instances I dont think i'd ever go into oncoming traffic and risk a 'my fault' head-on collision, as it was her 10month old daughter was in the rear seat at the time and had i managed to turn right and not left i would more than likely gone into the door with the littl'un on the other side and i would more than likely hit the roof edge of the car instead of going clean over the bonnet.. things could have been SO much worse and it doesnt bear thinking about..

Thanks Jamz things seem to be flowing through the insurance smoothly for now!

[razzcolio]

my engine just blew up i might be inclined to purchase ur from u

hope u feel better soon buddy!
sum jock on the phone did the same thing to me the other day only without the round about, i steamed off down the side street to "politely ask him not to do that again"
and just as i was about to get "very polite" the five 0 showed up lol
skidded the front wheel braking to a halt and browned my pants a little lol

[Crustis1]

Im really really sorry to hear this mate. Same thing happened to me on my RS125 when a car pulled out in the same way. Im glad your doing ok and i hope it all works out for you, dont let it put you off!!!

[Tirpitz]

What I can't work out is how you couldn't avoid the car? Did you target fixate and just try your best to brake to safety? Was there oncoming traffic to stop you going around the car?

+1

Not trying to kick you when you're down but I know when I've had (thankfully few) incidents I always think "never mind whose fault that was, what could I have done differently to avoid that?". I'm not really interested in whose fault something was, people are human, they make mistakes or do daft things, I just want to work out ways of avoiding grief 100% of the time. It helps your defensive skills to ride a pushbike in busy traffic - believe me, you become the invisble man and either learn defensive quick, or die young!

What I wondered was did she stop at all or just keep rolling and turn into your path? I'm guessing the former. Whenever I see a car at a junction I'm waiting for it to pull out on me, so I'm turned on for it to happen with an escape plan worked out. If I'm not going to be able to get round it I probably slow down until I'm 100% sure the driver has clocked me and isn't about to move. You really can tell 99% of the time if they're going to move, you can see subtle body language. From your diagram I'd be expecting to stop a bike from 30mph in that distance if I was already pumped up waiting for it to happen. As soon as I could see her in the car making as to moving the car / turning the wheel - almost as soon as it actually moved - I'd be bang on those brakes.

Did you have any daytime lights on BTW?

Get well soon fella and really pissed for you about the bike. Take something away from it though. Assume the worst will always happen and when it happens you'll be safe.

[Danman109]

What I can't work out is how you couldn't avoid the car? Did you target fixate and just try your best to brake to safety? Was there oncoming traffic to stop you going around the car?

What I wondered was did she stop at all or just keep rolling and turn into your path? I'm guessing the former. Whenever I see a car at a junction I'm waiting for it to pull out on me, so I'm turned on for it to happen with an escape plan worked out. If I'm not going to be able to get round it I probably slow down until I'm 100% sure the driver has clocked me and isn't about to move. You really can tell 99% of the time if they're going to move, you can see subtle body language. From your diagram I'd be expecting to stop a bike from 30mph in that distance if I was already pumped up waiting for it to happen. As soon as I could see her in the car making as to moving the car / turning the wheel - almost as soon as it actually moved - I'd be bang on those brakes.

Did you have any daytime lights on BTW?

Get well soon fella and really pissed for you about the bike. Take something away from it though. Assume the worst will always happen and when it happens you'll be safe.

At the time of day, her car was in shadow (it was dark blue) and i was following another estate car which blocked my view of her, the first thing i noticed was the nose of her car being revealed behind the car i was following,(going in split seconds from here) naturally you look at the wheels as the best indication of what the car is doing at the time (as this car was a surprise you end up tunnel visioning) and they were stopped (lost preparation time) then they turned on the spot (normal for this to happen but warning bells ringing, chop throttle) and started rolling (instantly judge how fast, is she gonna get in the way? YES) i instantly made the decision 'infront of the car' braked and turned as hard as i could in the hope she'd notice and stop... she didnt, she was still moving when i hit her and while lying on the ground i could hear the crunching of my bike still being pushed out of the way yep, lights on.. loud de-baffled exhaust as always.. i have a black and white jacket, white boots, matt black and red helmet.. bike is obviously bright white and green with lights on.. no excuse really.. did she see me? had she become fed up waiting at the junction? she had a kid in the back, was the kid screaming to get to the park? (thats whats in the turning) who knows i didnt speak to her..

[Tirpitz]

and i was following another estate car which blocked my view of her

Unfortunately, there's your answer. If you couldn't see her, she couldn't see you, so decided after the estate it was safe to go and didn't look again. By the time you came into view she wasn't looking. Maybe you need to drop back away from cars in front a bit more, adjust your positioning on the road so that you do have a better view of cars on either side ahead, and make sure you get right in the sight-line of any potential turners. As someone else posted, a position closr to the centre line of the road would get you right in the wing mirrors of cars ahead (good) and more visible to right turners waiting in the middle of the road ahead of you. When you get real close to them, though, you might want to move back towards the middle of your lane to give yourself a bit of room away from them. Definitely don't be afraid to move around on your side of the road to get yourself in the faces of drivers who might not see you for the car in front. Even worse with anything big like a bus/van/lorry - get WELL back from them.

It's still her fault but you can see how she's fallen into the trap, which is no consolation to you.

i instantly made the decision 'infront of the car' braked and turned as hard as i could in the hope she'd notice and stop

In retrospect that was the worse thing you could have done, you cut your options right down. You set yourself on a collision course for the direction the car was moving in the hope it would stop. You probably don't need me to say that if you had your time again you'd realise the the best direction to go for is round the back of the car - you're aiming for a spot that is opening up, not one which is closing. Better odds.

Hope some of these things help you. Easy to be wise sitting here thinking it through but you gotta do it to take something away from it

[Danman109]

i instantly made the decision 'infront of the car' braked and turned as hard as i could in the hope she'd notice and stop

In retrospect that was the worse thing you could have done, you cut your options right down. You set yourself on a collision course for the direction the car was moving in the hope it would stop. You probably don't need me to say that if you had your time again you'd realise the the best direction to go for is round the back of the car - you're aiming for a spot that is opening up, not one which is closing. Better odds.

At the time of this happening, as you can see on the diagram, there are two lanes on the right, and it was saturday morning traffic, there were other cars coming down the other lane and a car behind the one i hit, i didnt know exactly where they were (bigger things to worry about) the oncoming lane is a no-go zone as an escape route EXCEPT when i can be sure theres no-one oncoming, besides, if i avoided her i'd be in a position for a 'my fault' head-on.. (iv crossed the white line) i'd much rather go over a bonnet. Also from the amount i was able to turn and brake i suspect i would have hit the rear quarter of the car instead of the front and i could have gone into the edge of the roof and that would have hurt I've always thought.. 'what happens if i wreck my bike trying to avoid someone doing something stupid' they have no legal reason to stop and im injured (or worse) and i have a wrecked bike with no one to claim insurance on

[EvilSpike]

Damn sorry to hear about the crash mate

As to whether you did the right thing or not I'd say:

a) you are still alive

b) You didn't kill anyone else much

c) you actively tried doing something about it there and then, rather than do nothing and try and work it out afterwards

d) it was someone elses stupidity that caused it


As crashes go, I'd say it was relativly successfull and therefore you must have done the right thing. Either way a head on is allways to be avoided at every possibly oppertunity, upto and possibly including chosing to ride into a shark infested chasm...

GWS, hope you get a shiny new bike out of it.

[MrLuke]

Sorry to here this Dan, I'd be more than gutted if this happened to me Hope your insurance sorts you out and you recover though
Actually you know what, I'm in need of a rocker cover gasket hehe, what you looking for it posted?

[Danman109]

Sorry to here this Dan, I'd be more than gutted if this happened to me Hope your insurance sorts you out and you recover though
Actually you know what, I'm in need of a rocker cover gasket hehe, what you looking for it posted?

Thanks matey,

I'm going to be buying back the bike and dropping the engine into my new 400 so i'll still need the gasket im afraid buddy!! sorry!

[Danman109]

New 400 has arrived ALOT of work to be done on it but the previous owner has done a pucker job of the paintwork!!

This bike has virtually no brakes, possibly new seals and a master cylinder re-build needed.. :-/ Also a very mysterious problem which makes the bike sound like a V-Twin.. something definatley not right.. possibly running on three cyclinders, not sure yet.. replaced: plugs, HT leads, CDI, balanced carbs, diaphragms all sitting right.. mixture screws fine.. nooo idea whats causing it..

Nice paint job though.. begging for the engine from my old bike in it, once its been tuned of course!

[tink]

Sweet looking now ride