Who's interested in FI?

[carsounds_dan]

Right been speaking to some companies about FI and one said that if I could get enough of a market for the ECU and mapping that they would do us a special price.. now I've been looking at different throttle bodies etc and it looks like zx6r b1 throttle bodies will fit on with a little modification and a lambda sensor for your exhaust is all you will need other than that really.. I can even make plug and play wiring looms if it helps the deal..
I'll see what the prices work out for the all in deal and get back but if people are interested post here and also let me know what sort of money is the max you'd be willing to pay?
BTW it will offer things luck as launch control, quickshifting, shift lights, adjustable limiter, adjustable fuel & ignition maps with variable ignition advance.
Cheers
Dan

[Scott221]

I am very interested. Whats the price range? Wouldnt want to be spending more than 200 for otr, but would strech more when i track it.

[carsounds_dan]

well initial outlay is looking at about £60 for throttle bodies and injectors (I'm yet to make up mounts but looking to be ALOT cheaper than people thought), then an outlay for the high pressure fuel pump. Then a wideband lambda sensor (£145 delivered, you can use a narrow band but the home tuning capabilitys are ALOT smaller with a narrow band). Then the ECU will be about £230 (if they can get it to hold a 16000rpm top limiter), which ill include wiring loom and diagram. I'll also be supplying a fuel map for the ECU and then you can tailor it using the free software to suit your application.
There is an option to add a higher rated ECU but the company are slow getting back to me, this will have ALOT of options available such as full data logging including accelorator/brake/clutch inputs for optermising track riding.
For either system I recomend on using a Wideband Lambda sensor, then the ECU can continually monitor the engine's performance and adjust accordingly, with a narrow band it doesn't get a quantity so it's either "more fuel or less fuel" whereas a wideband can say "add 5% more fuel" and the ECU can adjust cleaner and quicker. The price difference between Narrow Band and Wide Band works out at about £80 but for home mapping a WideBand really is a must.
For a ride in ride out setup I could do a basic setup with a narrow band lambda sensor for £650... sounds steap I know but you'll pay £150 to get a set of carbs setup for your bike.. and carbs are always a compromise.
If people want to source parts themselves I will send links to places where they can be brought and supply an inital map (the one I will be running on my bike) and a full set of installation/startup instructions for £20-30.
If people want to stay and help put the FI on their own bike then obviously the price will fall, as it will if they supply their own parts.
These prices are estimates but should be pretty realistic, I've judged that I'll need £100 to source and fit a fuel pump as-well as I am stuggling to find an external fuel pump that is efficient enough to run on the bike's limited alternator output.
If anyone has a bike that they want FI on that they wouldn't mind me using as a development bike then obviously everything would be at cost and fully paid up members can get the install instructions for free off of me if they supply me with the relivant proof of membership.
Cheers
Dan

[gavinfdavies]

did this ever go any further? i'm looking into tweaking the carbs on my zxr, and it seems to be alot of hassle at each alteration, and you've got to do it on four carbs! I mean, just shifting a needle is a pain. I figure once you've installed a FI system with programable ecu, then setting up becomes simply a matter of whipping the laptop out. What are the current options? I mean, could a full zx6r system be used, i mean they're similar sized engines, and a programmable ecu would allow you to alter the fuel/ignition mapping to suit wouldn't it?

[carsounds_dan]

It didn't get off the ground on the ZXR, but I did it on my early SV650S and now operate a company that offers this service. It worked out a quite large gain on the SV and made riding it noticably easier.. it went from just being able to lift the front wheel in first (without clutch) to being able to roll on a wheely..

I did do some lambda readings on the ZXR before I got rid of it and found that on stock fueling it runs massively lean in the top end, when richened up with some carb tweaks it ran great flat out but not that great at idle.. This is where the FI would help smooth things out.

The ZX6R throttle bodies are roughly the same port positions, but the ECU wouldn't like the difference in engine size, airflow etc.. I guess it could be done but it would be one hell of a compromise and would work out messy.

If your interested I'll happily quote up a professional installation including a rolling road setup.

Many Thanks


Daniel

[gavinfdavies]

i was thinking zx6r throttle bodies/injectors, with an aftermarket ecu? i'd be interested in finding out exactly what would be involved, since i'm looking into doing a turbo conversion. the simplest route i'd thought of was an aerocharger which is fully self contained, with a single large pre-turbo carb, and a post-turbo intercooler in the standard airbox/throttle area. The only downside to this is that throttle response would be slower (due to more air/fuel being available post-carb) and that the carb into turbo assembly would take up alot of space behind the front wheel. I'd probably move the oil cooler up above the engine.

[bengone1]

Give me a set of TB that fit and I will give you an FI system.

http://www.microsquirt.info/

[gavinfdavies]

i'd looked at that, and seemed like a whole new learning curve. imagine what carbs must look like when you've never seen one!

lets say i'd got hold of a set of zx6r throttle bodies and injectors. I'd need a high pressure fuel pump, a wideband exhaust probe, a tps (i assume there's one already on the tb's), a crank pos sensor. what else? how would the mapping be changed etc?

[bengone1]

You plug in your laptop using an RS232 serial cable or a USB to serial adapter. It is an open source, user programmable FI system. The most you would have to do is modify the trigger wheel.

[bengone1]

What is the diameter of the ignition trigger wheel?

[zxr500man]

whats the story here,are these available?

[gavinfdavies]

trigger wheel? 'que'? As a certain waiter would say to a certain hotel owner!how much would the actuall microsquirt controller come too? and would it be feasible to managed ignition too? Can it be used with any old injectors?

[carsounds_dan]

The standard trigger wheel sits at the end of the crank on the camchain side (right hand side if riding bike). It's not a missing tooth type that most Megasquirt'ers will be used to, and most FI systems will require it changing to a different one. Not a hard job but you will need a sensor mounting up that can withstand the heat and oil.
The aftermarket ECU's that i use are either Pectel, DTA, Motec or Link systems, all of which can easily handle the inputs required. I've used megasquirt a few times and whilst it's proved reliable when installed after alot of fettling it isn't a product that I could or would sell. It takes some real hard work and setup to get it right, it is more fussy with it's inputs and more sensitive about voltage spikes etc.

If turbo charging the ZXR400 engine I'd say good luck, they're quite high compression so would require either a decompression plate or lower compression pistons to work well. Also be careful with the valve gear, I had two engines lunch their rockers (which are the same as the same age ZX6R) and they're a pain in the butt to change. Have you thought about using a smaller, higher output battery stored under the pillion seat and utilising the space under the drivers seat for your install?

The ZX6R throttle bodies and injectors will do the job, but will need some modifications to work, they have an inbuilt TPS unless it's been removed.

[bengone1]

The Microsquirt controller, GM MAP sensor w/pigtail, IAT sensor with pigtail, 36,2 trigger wheel totaled USD $515.00

Ebay can source 03-04 636 TB for less than USD $100.00 shipped. You will need one with injectors and wiring pigtails. If you could make GSXR TBs fit then you could run your bike off of them. It just needs a TPS sensor and injectors and you program the injection system. I have a friend running GSXR throttle bodies on a 2.0L 16v VW GTi

You can either weld in the pump system from another FI bike or buy a HP aftermarket inline car pump and regulator for USD $160.00

You will need a Wideband O2 or access to one for tuning. USD $200.00

Microsquirt can run both OE coils or later model COP ignition. The VR pickup used by the OE CDI should be able to drive the Mega squirt. Possibly have to fab a trigger wheel of the correct diameter if the commercially available one is to large.

Started typing this this morning and got distracted!

[zxr500man]

is there a huge benifit from doing this mod??