kit ignition

There seems to be more and more members appearing that are racing the ZXR400 so i've created a special section just for you to show off results, discuss meets etc etc.

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Ballsout Racing
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My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Most race circuits ;-)

Re: kit ignition

Post by Ballsout Racing »

Well, I've bitten the bullit. Having had two expensive ignitions fail on me now, as well as others I know, I've just fitted one of these. It really is plug and play, very easy, I've just used the F3 map for now and it starts and runs very well. I'll be getting it on the Dyno before the bemsee centenial meeting in a couple of weeks to get it properly mapped for my engine :smt001 . Fingers crossed I won't loose anything over what I had previously :smt017
tk400
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:50 am
My Bike: ZXR400 , ZXR950
Location: Australia

Re: kit ignition

Post by tk400 »

I have one of these on its way myself. I have been doing some mapping for Rick Oliver on my test bench. He is a top bloke and has put quite a bit of effort into obtaining maps from me for his customers. However he is mostly a honda man and so I will be quite interested in developing this unit on these forums. As I have already mapped the L model F3 solenoid PWM for the Flatslides I will be using the solenoid driver for that. I have found the solenoid MAP for the SP/F3 to be quite interesting it has a full 3D map. Also trying to obtain any other CDI's for mapping or modification if anyone has any Doners. cheers

Regards TK400
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Ballsout Racing
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Re: kit ignition

Post by Ballsout Racing »

Yeah, I had a good read yesterday on 400greybike, very interesting stuff, I'm just a bit confused about all the talk of getting a reasonable map, surely it can be done spot on with a dyno?

I have an RVF as well and I assume the boxe's are the same so was going to try it on that, just need the connector. Then I'll be looking at the 4 channel for the ZXR, just need to do the stick coil conversion first but would welcome your feedback on that. The only advantage I see is being able to increase the dwell, but I'm wondering how much it will improve things if at all?
tk400
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:50 am
My Bike: ZXR400 , ZXR950
Location: Australia

Re: kit ignition

Post by tk400 »

You can use the Dyno but there are a hell of a lot of test points in a 3D map at least 300 on the most coarse map.
Some of the advance requirements can be quite surprising so this is why a good map of the race kit ignitions vs the standard gives an understanding of where to aim. This cuts down the amount of testing a long way. I mean just on the SP ignition solenoid unit I mapped over 400 data points. so to figure that out from trial and error on a dyno through power alone without a wideband woulb be difficult...lol.
As for the 4 channel option, I am looking at that but until I get the unit I dont know if it allows for non waste spark or it is just for an 8 cylinder engine. It needs a cam trigger input for single fire. However If it can be configured for single fire then the benefit is both longer window period at High RPM for propper coil saturation ( dwell / charge time) and cooler running coils. The latter is more important than you might think as it does effect the resistance of the primary and secondary windings in the coil, having a significant effect on coil performance. Of course COP coils are quite poor at cooling to start with so any gain in that area is a plus. cheers

regards TK400
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Ballsout Racing
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Re: kit ignition

Post by Ballsout Racing »

OK, probably a realy numpty question, what's the point/advantage of a TPS? (we are talking about old carbs)
I mean in the UK as far as I'm aware most people use CVs, and where people are using Flatsides I beleive TPS is mostly not used(I may be wrong there though) certainly on mine when I tested them as I don't have an SP (ie loom, ignition etc).
I don't know much about RVFs but they also don't appear to have TPS.

Greville
tk400
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:50 am
My Bike: ZXR400 , ZXR950
Location: Australia

Re: kit ignition

Post by tk400 »

TPS allows for 3D mapping and in the case of the SP (flatslides) a solenoid with pulse width modulation controlled relative to both RPM and Throttle ( like efi). The 3D mapping allows for advance mapping on partial throttles to be different relative to position. This is important for throttle response and ECONOMY. when partial throttle conditions exist volumetric efficiency is reduced and therefore the opportunity for more advance exists due to lower peak cylinder pressures. obviously a MAP can also be used but if you intend to run fuel enrichment solenoids etc TPS is better. also MAP sensors can be trouble when used on individual throttle setups....cheers


Regards TK400...
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Ballsout Racing
L-plate hell
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Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:04 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Most race circuits ;-)

Re: kit ignition

Post by Ballsout Racing »

Ok, thanks for explaining that, it makes sense.

My thought is that on a 400 race bike it's almost pointless, if you're not on full throttle then you don't need the best power for given partial throttle openings, you're only real concern is to get the best out of the bike on full throttle, which on a 400 is most of the time; and you certainly don't care about economy :smt005 .

But it certainly makes sense on a road bike, especially as you won't normally be using high revs.

Greville
big4bore
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:34 pm
My Bike: zxr 400 racer L

Re: kit ignition

Post by big4bore »

Hi Guys
This post is of real interest to me. i like the look of the ignition system. Just a couple of questions ? you may be able to help. I have a race zxr with a cdi coded 21119-1332, as far as i know its nothing fancy. my questions are If i run one of these cdis are they mapped ready to go (with a base map) if and when you increase the rpm do you replace the valve train components.
Regards
Steve
Great site, lots of usefull info.
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