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Since the last thread died I just had a mini brain-wave, or brain fart perhaps.

Rather than have this thread filled with peoples views on the current system I was thinking about the actual system.

The 33bhp limit, it's a bit odd.

Perhaps something a bit more workable like a 250cc / 40hp limit or a list of specific bikes that are 'learner-legal' like aussie. for two years should be introduced, if manufactureres started building more 'learner' bikes like they have in other countries people wouldn't have the option to 'remove' the restrictors, it'd also give the market a boost, especially the second hand market for new bikers.

plus it'd open the door to cheaper minature sports bikes

Tack on a lower insurance premium to encourage new riders and it might just help the UK bike market.

It seems a nice idea but I don't think it would work.. the UK bike market is a bit stagnent and the powers that be seem to be anti-biker.

What u describe there I thought could be found in the ninja250?

It would be nice if the manufactures made more sporty small bikes. I've only ever owned small capacity road bikes because I dont see the point in 180 bhp road bikes
give me good handling small capacity bike with all the trick bits any day much more fun . but there is not much choice out there
new after all you got the cbr 250, gsxr 250 the yamaha and the ninja 250 but there all compomise bikes look like the chinese built them there not really a show case in technology
maybe with the new moto 1 and moto 2 bikes out there it may kick start the small capacity race replica market again.

Leey wrote:I've only ever owned small capacity road bikes because I dont see the point in 180 bhp road bikes

You would so see the point if you had one

I have the 2 Hayabusa's & the ZXR400..

The ZXR to me is a short distance fun bike to basically mess around on and not take too seriously.

The Busa's are go anywhere & ride any way you want to sort of bikes, but take a lot more concentration & commitment to ride. They are a LOT of fun to ride & everyone should have a go on one at sometime in their life.

If you ride one you will want one...Very versatile bike..

However a GSXR1000 is a very nice bike but sort of falls into the short distance fun bike category that as you say has too much power for its intended use..

Ive sold me zxr and am looking at a new 2011 gsxr600 or 1000. 0% interest.

tbh they both look awesome, and have some really neat standard stuff, brembo monoblock brakes, showa big piston forks, light wheels, etc etc etc.

When it comes to monthly cost, its a few quid. But what phil said is my dilemma right now.

Is the 600 going to be enough for the next 3-5 years? will i feel happy doing 100 miles to visit parents down some stretches of dual carriageway? Will it be comfy enough?

Or do I go for the 1000? Will It be too much for me, trying to throw me off... But then more comfortable and less revvy on the motorway, and still stinkin fast everywhere else...

Ive had full licence for 3 months, but riding small cc bikes since 12. I got used to the 400 quickly, Im just worried about another small jump but a big investment. What say you guys?

You shoulda enjoyed your 400 for abit n then moved up mate i mean having a 1000 is all good n well but you gt all your life man dont rush it

Ok if memory serves me right the orginal great restriction thread refered to the jap market model zxrs which had a 110mph speed limit restriction.
This thread seems to be about the legally imposed by the UK government 33bhp restriction

To make it clear these are entirely different things and unrelated.............

Oh and it seems to have gone off topic already

hudders wrote:Ive sold me zxr and am looking at a new 2011 gsxr600 or 1000. 0% interest.

tbh they both look awesome, and have some really neat standard stuff, brembo monoblock brakes, showa big piston forks, light wheels, etc etc etc.

When it comes to monthly cost, its a few quid. But what phil said is my dilemma right now.

Is the 600 going to be enough for the next 3-5 years? will i feel happy doing 100 miles to visit parents down some stretches of dual carriageway? Will it be comfy enough?

Or do I go for the 1000? Will It be too much for me, trying to throw me off... But then more comfortable and less revvy on the motorway, and still stinkin fast everywhere else...

Ive had full licence for 3 months, but riding small cc bikes since 12. I got used to the 400 quickly, Im just worried about another small jump but a big investment. What say you guys?

Buy a second hand bike.

If you like it, keep it or buy a brand new version of it.

If you don't, sell it for very little loss and try a bigger/smaller cc used bike.

Repeat if necessary.



Personally there's no -ing way I'd pay our for a brand new bike, especially on finance. I would have done it for a new ZX10R this year, but got made redundant at Christmas, so it's a bloody good job I didn't.

I agree with Jamz. Not only do I not like the look of current new bikes, I think they are way overpriced and the build quality is shite. There's a lot of serious depreciation there. Now for £2000-3000 I can buy a nearly mint 90s sportsbike of any capacity I choose and when I sell it get back virtually what I paid for it. That gives me the option of trying out loads of bikes, just keep swapping them. There's a hell of a lot of excellent bikes from that era that most mortal riders are never going to be bored with.

Am currently saving up my 'entry fee' to this option. Will be keeping the ZXR, definitely a keeper that. First on the list is a GSXR 750, then I fancy a ZXR 750, ZX9R looks good.......................etc

On the subject of restriction - fair idea to have a set of models which are 'restricted legal' but you'd also have to have legislation to ban modding. Otherwise you can buy a legal model and then bore out the engine, tune it etc.. TBH the push would have to come from within the industry and they can't be arsed. They just want people to buy the latest big thing and buy a restrictor kit for it. They buggered things up by getting rid of strokers. That created a lot of interest in the lower capacity market, encouraged 400 4-stroke competition etc.. Now there's a real gap in interest at that level.

sorry to take it off topic.

tirpitz, it seems that every thing points towards an acceleration in bike technology going from track to road stock, and build quality cant be getting worse when you look at the kit on modern bikes.

that said, your depreciation point got me thinking.. i could save for 1 year but its not easy to sit on cash. in 3 years tho ill be able to sell for 4-5k (hopefully) and get another awesom nearly nbew bike....

Plus if no one bought em new you wouldnt be able to pick em up for 3k!!!

The bike companies must have made some business decision that manufacturing and developing 400's was not cool. But can you imagine the kind of handling and insane grin factor a new 2011 zxr400 with asmuch importance put into it as the 600 and 1000? People wouldnt buy that? They got the 600 down to 190 odd kg now, imagine a 160kg zxr400, 41mm forks, a stock ohlins rear shock,full floating discs, new tech engine, etc etc.

Bah it went off topic already and my reply didnt' post!

Offtopic issues.

I prefer the CBR1100xx as my overall favourite big-bike i've ridden, compared to the Hayabusa i'd take one anyday.

For general road use I think the newer 600's have it nailed.. my old mans 2008 cbr600rr has twice the power of a good 400, weighs less, brakes tyres and suspension are better and it handles like a dream... too much power for the road! using all that and i'd be banned in no time.. probably why I like the 400's.

Back on topic.

The idea was a learner certified class of bikes to fit uk legislation.. since theres so little at the moment people buy bikes they can't ride and restrict (or not) them.. if there were a dedicated class of bikes that didn't need fiddling with then everyone would know if the learner was legal or not, this would remove the temptation and might offer other benefits.. like a load of cheap learner certified bikes.. more 'race-reps' for the learners that actually have decent power and maybe imrpove the market! Bring in some more greys from over Japan.

45ps seems a good figure.. 250/4's - 400 twins etc

Everythign would be rosy! Or maybe not

hudders wrote:
tirpitz, it seems that every thing points towards an acceleration in bike technology going from track to road stock, and build quality cant be getting worse when you look at the kit on modern bikes.

What I mean by 'build quality' isn't the mechanical side of things, I mean the cosmetic finish. The painwork is a whole lot worse on modern Kwaks than it was 20 years ago, and it was never superb then. Honda were the market leaders for build quality in the 80s and 90s. The result used to be that if you ran a sportsbike year round a Kwak would suffer big-time from corrosion whereas a Honda would fare better. Nowadays I speak to lots of riders of new Kwaks who are having issues with paintwork rubbing off (yes rubbing off ) bikes that are only used in the summer and never see rain. These guys are pretty pissed off, especially as the dealers don't want to know and are claiming 'wear and tear'. This is on bikes less than 12 months old.

This adds a great deal to the depreciation of the machine. A well cared for bike can look very tatty, very quick.

The main reason why 400s were / are made is because of Japanese licensing laws. It is a very popular capacity class. They were imported here (first as greys) because insurance made them attractive. Then the supersport 400 racing class here gave them a boost and Kwak decided to officially import the ZXR (no other 400 was an official import). Once the powers that be decided to abandon 2-stroke racing and with it the 400 race class they died in popularity. Also the new laws in the UK that saw the introduction of restrictions made 400s on the road less attractive, as you could get a bigger bike and restrict it, then derestrict in due course. They are probably still big sellers in Japan (unless licensing laws have changed) but we are back to the grey import only situation in the UK. You have to remember, we only see a fraction of the kit the Japs produce over here. The best stuff they keep for themselves

Sorry to drift off topic again..........

Actually the Honda NC30 VFR 400 was an official import for a couple of years


Honda might have had excellent finish but they did produce a few 70s 80s 90s bikes with chocolate camshafts