You're thinking about it far too much, considering you do it without thinking anyway!
You should also bear in mind that it's entirely possible to get your knee/pegs down at 30mph... I've even seen people do it at less than 10mph!
Think of rolling a coin across a table. Just before it falls it will roll in circles at a higher and higher lean angle.
Now that coin COULD reach those same lean angles at a higher speed, just as you can lean the bike more at a higher speed - but it's pointless.
It's why so many people die trying to get their knee down at 100mph when they could just as easily be doing it at 30 and walking away after they crash.
oh no!
i dont do daft speeds theres no need, i am thinkng about it to hard but i can go round a bend in diffrent ways, i can countersteer and it feels the best (smooth comfortable) or i can do what i was doin and just lean the bike over using my body weight, which doesnt feel as good and is harder work. im gonna continue to countersteer anyway, iv got no kneesliders so wont be trying knee down until i get my knew leathers.
Sunday looks to be a nice day so ill be out then!
when you say about your older style of using your body weight it's actually that you were using less input on the bars to steer with because no one had told you that if you activly push the inside bar harder the bike will tip over onto its side quicker and easier. this moves the center of gravity off the vertical and makes those rolling coins want to follow an arc of a constant radius if the speed of our forward movement is not altered.
Rather than thinking about what your doing with countersteering atm just ride your favourite roads, hang off the side of the bike and try using different entry points to get around the bends while trying to hit the same exit point every time. dont try it too fast though, it's just an exercise in natural countersteering. You will automatically use countersteering to adjust your position through the corners but your mind will be focused on that exit point rather than the concept of what your supposed to do with the bars. your brain will retain all the information of what your doing with the bike and you'll start to use "active" countersteering without thinking about it much at all. as you get more and more comfortable you can increase the speed a bit at a time, take it easy though i dont want you to end up on the wrong side of the road because you went in too hot on an odd entry point.
The trouble with having an open mind, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
cant be bothered to read the whole thread properly - so apologies in advance!!
point 1) you are already counter steering to go round corners -
point 2) counter steering is not going to make you corner faster
point 3) you cannot corner without steering input - in the real world this is always a combination of body steer and countersteer.
hanging off the bike alters the CG of the rider/motorcycle combination. This means that the CG is lower than if you are sitting bolt upright on the seat. means that the required lean angle of the rider/bike combination is achieved with the bike itself leaning less. If the motorbike maintains the same lean angle, but the rider hangs off.... the CG is effectively lowered and this means that corner speed needs to be increased.
that sounds about right cuz when im cournering im consentrating on what im doing with the bars instead of what im actually doing on the road. i have started to hang off a bit but it feels a bit awkward cuz like uv both sed you dont have to lean as much so im like leaning off slighttly but the bikes more upright, which is correct it just feels wierd. im hopefully going out for a long run sat morning so we will see how i get on!
by the way caz, seen has how u havnt read the thread - my front tyre has been lent over to the edge but the rear hasnt, do u know why?
kermit the frog wrote:by the way caz, seen has how u havnt read the thread - my front tyre has been lent over to the edge but the rear hasnt, do u know why?
saw that earlier but didn't answer
a) It might just be your tyres. Some combinations of bike and tyre profile mean you will never get to the edge of the front.
b) It's also a result of road riding rather than track riding. If you are riding sensibly on the road you are probably going in quite slowly and accelerating through the corner - so you are loading the back more than the front when you are leant over. On track you are more likely to turn in with more weight over the front (ie still on the brakes/closed throttle).
[edit: just realised I've explained the opposite of what you said. maybe you are in the habit of running hot into corners. bu most likely it's just (a)]
In the garage:
Kawasaki ZXR400 L3 - shiny
Suzuki DR800 - bouncy
1978 Suzuki GS400 - PROJECT RETRO RACER!
Kawasaki GPz500S - for sale soon
Honda CG125 BR-J - in bits
kermit the frog wrote:
by the way caz, seen has how u havnt read the thread - my front tyre has been lent over to the edge but the rear hasnt, do u know why?
what brand tyres do you have? and what sizes???? IME, its unusual to get to the edge of the front tyre before the edge of the rear.
kermit the frog wrote:by the way caz, seen has how u havnt read the thread - my front tyre has been lent over to the edge but the rear hasnt, do u know why?
saw that earlier but didn't answer
a) It might just be your tyres. Some combinations of bike and tyre profile mean you will never get to the edge of the front.
b) It's also a result of road riding rather than track riding. If you are riding sensibly on the road you are probably going in quite slowly and accelerating through the corner - so you are loading the back more than the front when you are leant over. On track you are more likely to turn in with more weight over the front (ie still on the brakes/closed throttle).
[edit: just realised I've explained the opposite of what you said. maybe you are in the habit of running hot into corners. bu most likely it's just (a)]
im running bt020's bout 1000miles old. front size 120/60/zx17 rear size 160/60/zr17 satnadrd sizes i believe the manual says!
im also waiting for an email reply from bridgestone, will let you all know what they say!!!!!!!!!!!
im gettin on much better know with the countersteering, not thinkng about it so much and it definetly puts it on its side qiucker, still waitin to go for a long run though cuz weather is looking shite and i got no friggin money!!!
Have you checked the suspension on your bike? record what settings they are (incase its not standard and you want to go back to it) and then set it all to standard.
Has your bike been dropped through the yokes at all?, is there a spacer above the rear shock? Things that alter the suspension geometry could explain why you are getting to the edge of the front and not the rear.
I may be missing the point, but if your happy with the bike.... why are you so bothered about getting to the edge of your tyres?
I know a guy who used to only use the centre 3/4s of his tyres - he would hang off like a monkey and is blindingly fast.... the remainder of the tyre was "his margin"
im not trying to get get to the edge i was just wondering why the front is to the edge but the rear isnt??
hear is mr bridgstones reply, ur geomtry stuff sounds about right, but i think he wants me to be the guinneypig for him. i dont think so, not with my baby,lol.
As the BT-020’s are a sports touring tyre, the profile (actual shaper from side to side) will be very different to that of a sports tyre. i.e. much flatter and less acute. This can sometimes, when fitted to a sports bike, mean that you will not use all of the tyre due to the geometry of the bike. If you wish use all of the tyre the you need to alter the bike itself. The main thing you need to do shorten the wheelbase either by moving the rear wheel forwards or dropping the front forks through the yokes (make them shorter in affect).
i dont want to go messin, i love the way it handles and love the tyres!!!! i think il just keep practicing this countersteering lark and keep you posted how im gettin on.
kermit the frog wrote:im not trying to get get to the edge i was just wondering why the front is to the edge but the rear isnt??
strange as my bike is the exact opposite, unfortunately a blown fork seal put the dampers on me get my kneedown last night, but roll on monday when im off work
gem
There's No Explanation For The Way I'm About To Behave!!!
kermit the frog wrote:im not trying to get get to the edge i was just wondering why the front is to the edge but the rear isnt??
hear is mr bridgstones reply, ur geomtry stuff sounds about right, but i think he wants me to be the guinneypig for him. i dont think so, not with my baby,lol.
As the BT-020’s are a sports touring tyre, the profile (actual shaper from side to side) will be very different to that of a sports tyre. i.e. much flatter and less acute. This can sometimes, when fitted to a sports bike, mean that you will not use all of the tyre due to the geometry of the bike. If you wish use all of the tyre the you need to alter the bike itself. The main thing you need to do shorten the wheelbase either by moving the rear wheel forwards or dropping the front forks through the yokes (make them shorter in affect).
i dont want to go messin, i love the way it handles and love the tyres!!!! i think il just keep practicing this countersteering lark and keep you posted how im gettin on.
cheers everyone
kermit
got the same on my gixer but can i really make the wheelbase any shorter?
Don't forget people there is more to the zxr400 than this forum... check out www.zxrworld.co.uk also.
