problems with ethanol fuel?

[ross46]

today is not the first day this has happened and im sure its not going to be the last, riding along, switch the bike onto reserve and it starts cutting out, needing choke to run etc. checked the fuel in the bottom of the tank and found that their is a mix of water and ethanol at the bottom of my tank. last time I drained a sample of, and tested the specific gravity of the mixture and found that it is not just water and is unlikely to be petrol as they don't mix and the mixture would have had a miniscule amount of petrol in or the readings would be different. so my question is has anyone else had problems with new fuel which was set to rise to 10% ethanol last year? I plan to try get the mixture of water and ethanol checked to confirm. it really has annoyed me that the government has decided to enforce these rules meaning that older cars and bikes are suffering problems because they cant reach their "green" goal.

[banner001]

no problems here, but i use my bike every day and ive got it set to drain from the reserve, not the "on" setting. it gets a fresh tank of fuel every ~10 days, and i drain the tank and carbs fully if im leaving it more than a week without use (rare).

[CaNsA]

FWIW

The shell version of Super Unleaded has 0% ethanol.

[banner001]

if you can drain off the water you should be ok to still use the fuel as long as its fairly fresh, you will have lost some of the ethanol in it as it will have preferentially dissolved in the water, but thats not going to cause you bother.

[ross46]

shell super has 0% ethanol, will use that all the time then, i think its where i leave it in the "on" position unless i'm really low and water has accumulated which doesnt help as ethanol is hydroscopic, so the ethanol and water mixture sits at the bottom of the tank in the reserve portion

[maelstrom]

Apart from the water absorption and related problems.
Here are some facts. Please note that I sell carb kits made from Viton so I have a vested interest.

1/ Viton is the only elastomer that is resistant to ethanol blend fuels. Note that I said 'blend'. NBR, what the OEM parts are made from, is resistant to pure ethanol but not ethanol-petroleum blends.
Here is the best research that I have found on the topic http://info.ornl.gov/sites/publications ... b27766.pdf
No other document, that I have seen, even comes close to this work (extract from summary below).

2/ 10% Ethanol blend will cause all of your carb seals to suffer from embrittlement and fail. It is a simple fact. All of the stories about "manufacturer's have known for a long time blah blah" are nothing more than unsupported rhetoric. I have tested genuine parts from the big 4 Japanese manufacturers and not one of them was made from Viton. You will also find claims by parts resellers that their products are resistant to Ethanol, but they do not state what their products are made from. NRP in the UK is one of the exceptions; they categorically state that they use Viton for some of their parts.

Now I know that some of us are lazy and reading a research paper can be a tad boring so here from the summary. Note that Viton is the trade name for DuPont's flourocarbon elastomer.

5.2.1 Fluorocarbons
Fluorocarbons yielded the lowest decrease in physical properties of the elastomers tested in this study. The addition of ethanol did not drastically affect the measured properties, and the eight fluoroelastomers exhibited only modest swell and softening (wet hardness decrease) upon exposure to the test fuels. The specimens swelled to around 20%, which is considered the upper limit for many sealing applications. Likewise the fluoroelastomers did not experience shrinkage and mass loss at the dried condition, nor did they become embrittled. . . . ..

5.2.5 NBR
The eight NBR samples (and polyurethane) showed a pronounced increase in volume swell and softening when exposed to fuels containing ethanol. Exposures to Fuel C resulted in volume expansion approaching 20%. When exposed to the ethanol-blended test fluids, the NBRs swelled by more than 30%. Likewise, the hardness values dropped an additional 10 points when ethanol was added to the test fluid. When all of the samples (including Fuel C exposures) were dried, 8% to 14% of the mass was lost and the accompanying shrinkage was between 10% and 18%. The dried hardness was increased 5 to 16 points, indicating that embrittlement had occurred. NBR was one of only two elastomer types (the other being neoprene) that exhibited significant embrittlement in the dried state, indicating that plasticizer components were being removed by the test fuels. . . . .


cheers
Blair

[KwakKwak]

Having used these kits twice, with two more winging their way to me, I defo recommend them, they are even packaged beautifully. All on different carbs btw.
One other thing Blair, how many do I buy before my free kit???

[maelstrom]

Aaah Mr Kwak Kwak I noticed your name pop up again with your latest order.
I will pass your request on to my Thai wife.
cheers
Blair

[cargo]

Aaah Mr Kwak Kwak I noticed your name pop up again with your latest order.
I will pass your request on to my Thai wife.
cheers
Blair

There's another customer coming your way today looking for FCR seals. Darren is his name. Your reputation is growing. Care to sponsor a road racer ? Broke and adrenalin addicted

[maelstrom]

Hi Cargo,
I guess you know we already sponsor a small race team in Aus; it is on the home page. But by all means send me a pm.
cheers
Blair

[Mori Man]

Nearly all ZXR's should be run on hi-Oc / premium fuels - so far these have escaped ethanol.

Do your research to find out if your engine is using hi-comp pistons as standard , if it is your killing power on regular !

My 2T's are only ever on Hi-Oc but after a few reads all bikes will be. Will also be stocking up on Hi-comp pistons for the new block and other builds

[maelstrom]

+1 To what Mori Man said.
Avoid ethanol blend fuel as much as possible.

[KwakKwak]

Aaah Mr Kwak Kwak I noticed your name pop up again with your latest order.
I will pass your request on to my Thai wife.
cheers
Blair

Ta Blair, I appear to be addicted to CVs and LiteTec kits. I should just set up a standing order with you
If you ever God forbid, decide to discontinue the ZXR kits please please forewarn me.
Stu.

[Mori Man]

Avoid ethanol blend fuel as much as possible.

As far as I know JAMA have said they will not accept Ethanol in premium fuel in Japan , most high end cars all use it and as far as I am aware all manufacturers have said it's a no-no in their motors.

My latest motor is a Hi-Oc guzzler

[KwakKwak]

All petrol stations should have a special bugle alert for us superplus etc users, so all the mere mortals watch in awe, we know the good stuff, we use it with pride, and our bikes and cars bloody love us for it. Personally I puff out my chest every time I use the high oc pump